Which variety of Snapper?

[lucky]

Hi - I've been reading many of the posts over the last few months about fishing in Cuba and Snapper has been one of the fish regularly mentioned but just exactly which variety of Snapper is it that you catch in Cuba? Is it the Cubera Snapper which can be caught off the coast of Africa or is it another type found in the Caribbean.

[Pepin]

The "Cuban Snapper" is only found in Cuba. Mostly in Havana. You don't catch IT....It catches you. The Snapper can be found on the streets of Havana Vieja walking around in spandex shorts and a lot of perfume.

Whatever you do........don't eat it.

[Mark]

Looks the same as a Mutton Snapper that they catch in the Keys.

[cubafish]

Yes, well you have to be careful of the snapper mentioned by Pepin.

But the answer to your answer is: no, not Cubera, and while there are Cubera snapper in Cuba, I doubt many on this site have caught a Cubera in Cuba.. There are several varieties that you have been reading about, and as Mark said: Mutton is one, Mangrove and Lane are two others, and "Sailors Choice" would be a catch-all for several other varieties of snapper found in Cuba.

[lucky]

Thanks guys - that's much appreciated.

[Crazyhook]

mostly commonly Muttons are inshore, Cubera snappers are found on deeper reefs. Alot of the locals call Muttons Cuberas

here is a Pargo I caught a few weeks back on a topwater plug at night
http:/www.myfishingpictures.com/img/120644.jpg

[lucky]

Here's some to links to those three varieties that Mark and Cubafish mentioned:

Mutton snapper (http://myfwc.com/marine/FishID/snapmutt.html)

Lane snapper (http://myfwc.com/marine/FishID/snaplane.html)

Gray snapper (http://marinefisheries.org/FishID/snapgray.html)

The Gray or Mangrove snapper looks quite similiar to the Cubera but is a much smaller species.

[cubafish]

here is a Pargo I caught a few weeks back on a topwater plug at night

Nice fish - that's a Mangrove Snapper, likely the most common snapper in Cuba - and very good to eat. Keep your fingers away from its teeth, otherwise you find out the hard way why they call them "snappers." :-)

[Pepin]

Right you are CB. I forgot to warn the OP about playing "Stinky Finger" with the Cuban Snapper. I warned him NOT TO EAT IT but you are rght about putting your finger in it also.

[cubafish]

Well it's always enjoyable to eat something that tastes fishy, the aftermath of which often results in "Sticky Fingers."

[Peter Perez]

Yes, well you have to be careful of the snapper mentioned by Pepin.

But the answer to your answer is: no, not Cubera, and while there are Cubera snapper in Cuba, I doubt many on this site have caught a Cubera in Cuba.. There are several varieties that you have been reading about, and as Mark said: Mutton is one, Mangrove and Lane are two others, and "Sailors Choice" would be a catch-all for several other varieties of snapper found in Cuba.

Speak for yourself, I have caught both Cubereta ( Mangrove Snapper) and Cubera in 300 feet of water and weighing 50+ LBS.
The Mutton is called Pargo Criollo, also de Lane snapper is found in Cuba and the Cabrillo(Lutjanus apodus, school master) snapper,also teh yellow tail is found in cuba and very tasty, all can be found in Florida and probably in greater abundance, due to size regulations and bag limits.

[cubafish]

Well good for you Peter. BTW, I covered you in the reply that you quoted - if you had taken the time to read it.

and FYI, there are places in Cuba where Cubera in the 50 lb range come into very shallow water (15 ft), but to my knowledge there are not many of these areas where the Cubera come into this shallow water.

[Mark]

In my experience fish are like women. You'll travel miles to try and get one(most of the time failing),when you do get one the fun doesn't last for as long as you'd hoped and it ends up costing you a bloody fortune.
Lucky I'm not bitter and twisted.
Big up all the divorced lads.

[waggerlad]

In my experience fish are like women. You'll travel miles to try and get one(most of the time failing),when you do get one the fun doesn't last for as long as you'd hoped and it ends up costing you a bloody fortune.
Lucky I'm not bitter and twisted.
Big up all the divorced lads.
you still harping on, about not getting fixed up with that blonde bit with the big baps, should of took up the bit who got them out playing pool.
hows life you welsh tart ;)

[Crazyhook]

Nice fish - that's a Mangrove Snapper, likely the most common snapper in Cuba - and very good to eat. Keep your fingers away from its teeth, otherwise you find out the hard way why they call them "snappers." :-)


I have eaten them in Florida before and they are very tasty.. that one is still swimming again. What a great fight on 8 pound test

[Peter Perez]

Well good for you Peter. BTW, I covered you in the reply that you quoted - if you had taken the time to read it.

and FYI, there are places in Cuba where Cubera in the 50 lb range come into very shallow water (15 ft), but to my knowledge there are not many of these areas where the Cubera come into this shallow water.

Any Cubera that weighs in the 50 lbs range and comes to shallow water like that , should be looked as Siguata (Sick With siguatera).
I would not eat it, Just like any barracuda that does not put up a fight and the scales fall off easily.
Cuba has a lot of Mazanillo( Cigua), which sardines and smaller bait fish eat and that is how the larger fish gets infected,

It was Galen who first said that Moray eels were dangerous to eat.1 When European colonists first settled in the islands of the Caribbean they encountered the neurological consequencessuffered by gourmet victims who had ingested the local gastropod, Livona, called "cigua". It was thought that all cases were dueto the ingestion of snails, although it is now appreciated that most were in fact due to the eating of ciguatoxic fish. Parra,in 1787 in his "Description de Diferents Piezas" in the Antilles, referred to the neurological symptoms of the clinical intoxication which he called "siguatera".1

The neurological manifestations of ciguatera are dramatic and often enigmatic. Ciguatoxins are some of the most potent biological toxins known. Their neurotropic effects produce a protean arrayof symptoms which are distressing in the acute phase syndrome and which are enervating throughout the often prolonged progression ofconvalescence.

The detailed neurological effects of ciguatera were first described by Surgeon Lieutenant William Anderson RN, naval surgeon on Cook's Ship HMS Resolution, in the Pacific in 1786.2 Cook'screw had caught fish which were eagerly eaten by the sailors and the scraps fed to the ship's dogs. Anderson described the neurological features of the consequent severe intoxication in both human and canine victims. He described the distressing skin tingling, the"reversal" of tactile heat sensation, and the accompanying nausea and prostration.

Ciguatera is a clinical intoxication3-5 caused by the ingestion of ciguatoxic fish.6 Human victims are the end link in a food chain cascade.7 The primary toxins are manufactured in the benthic (bottom dwelling) dinoflagellate Gambierdiscustoxicus;37; and are concentrated successively in the fleshand viscera of small piscine herbivores, small carnivorous fish,and ultimately in larger fish, many species of which are prized gourmet species. "At risk" fish include some species of mackerel(Scomberomorus sp) and barracuda (Sphyraena sp)3 and many ofthe tropical reef species such as coral trout (Plectropomus sp)5; and in some parts of the world include the flesh and viscera ofMoray eels (Lycodontis sp).8 The disease is not uncommon in many littoral populations of the tropical and subtropical nations of the world.9 In some island nations in the Caribbean andin the Pacific where the principal source of protein is fish,the annual incidence of intoxication may approach 10% of the population.10Ciguatera poisoning is poorly understood as a potential globalhealth problem in temperate countries, particularly in North America and Europe. The toxin is stored in the viscera of fish that haveeaten the photosynthetic dinoflagellate; and is progressively concentrated upwards along the food chain. The toxin is stablein the tissue of living fish and does them no harm. Larger carnivores have higher concentrations of the toxin in their tissues. Thepractical consequence of this is that consumption of the largest carnivorous fishoften those gourmet specimens which are frozenand transported for intercontinental consumption therefore forms the greatest risk of ciguatera intoxication for the consumer.Pacific ciguatoxins pose a health risk at concentrations (within ingested fish flesh) above 0.1 ppb.11

Extensive international commerce in frozen fish, and especially that involving trade in gourmet reef species, means that victims of this dramatic intoxication may now be encountered in all countries.12An estimated 10 000-50 000 victims have the disease annually.13Cases have been reported in the past decade from the United States(Hawaii14 and from Rhode Island15), Madagascar,16 Hong Kong,17Europe,12 and extensively from the South Pacific.3 4 9 Ciguatera is thus a global health problem from the perspective of preventive medicine5 and an acute challenge for the cliniciantreating individualcases.

Increased awareness of the neurotoxic effects of ciguatera will aid in earlier diagnosis.3 This in turn will facilitate earlier treatment18 and the shortening of convalescence. Theearlier identification of sentinel patients has the potentialto prevent secondary cases and thus reduce the clinical clusters or microepidemics of victims.

Ciguatoxins

Ciguatoxins are potent heat stable, non-protein, lipophilic sodium channel activator toxins that bind quasi-irreversibly to the voltage sensitive sodium channel at site five.19 The moleculartargets are found on all membranes of excitable tissues but with varying tissue specific affinity. The receptor site overlaps thereceptor site for brevitoxin, another food chain paralytictoxin.20Both Pacific and Caribbean ciguatoxin8 have as their basicstructure unique molecular chains of 13 and 14 joined ether rings (c62H92O19) respectively. Nine of these transfused rings form a ladder which is very similar in all ciguatoxins (figure).11 18 The toxins are tasteless and odourless and are relatively heat stable to the temperatures usually employed in cooking. Both Pacific ciguatoxins (P-CTX-1) and Caribbean ciguatoxins (C-CTX-1) are stable for at least 6 months at commercial freezing temperatures.19

[cubafish]

Any Cubera that weighs in the 50 lbs range and comes to shallow water like that , should be looked as Siguata (Sick With siguatera).
I would not eat it, Just like any barracuda that does not put up a fight and the scales fall off easily.

Not really, although cigueterra is possible in any reef carnivore.

These fish migrate in. They do not appear to be schooled up, but there are a lot of them. Not all are 50 lbr's mind you as 50 lbs is the biggest I have seen. Most are in the 10 - 30 lb range, and would you believe they will hit a topwater plug? I didn't either until I saw it.

Then in a couple of months they are all gone. It's almost like a spawning ritual, although I don't think they are spawning - but then I don't know much about fish hormones. :-)

[Peter Perez]

Cubera snapper spawning aggregation off the coast of Belize
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Gallery/Descript/CuberaSnapper/cube.JPG



· Reproduction All snappers are oviparous breeders, releasing pelagic eggs into offshore waters. The cubera snapper spawns from June to August in the waters in the Caribbean. During spawning, hundreds of individuals may aggregate over deep areas. The eggs hatch within a day after fertilization, producing pelagic larvae that are dispersed by the currents. There is little known about the development of the larvae and their settlement out of the plankton. Cubafish, Usually when they come to shore like that is for two reasons, one they are sick or they are spawning, another thing I've seen in Beliz is they like to get by freshwater streams for some reason , but usually the smaller ones. Look at the female in the pic almost vertical she spays the eggs in this position and below the males fertilize the waters around where the eggs are falling.If you se them vertical like that then they are spawning.