being harassed as a DIY fishermen on Cayo Largo

[scuro]

A Casa Batida fishing club boat came up to me on the southern shore of the island near Playa Sirena and told this area was restricted for fishing. Do they own exclusive rights to the whole island?

[streamside]

Howdy all.
Haven't been checking the board or down to C/L in a couple of seasons been hanging around the Bahamas instead. Things must of changes since the last time I went down, never had a hassle with the guides while out on the flats but on many occasion while fishing the guides would roll in to check out the flat I was fishing. As soon as the pole came out I simply sat back had a beer and watched them pole on by. I guess this little bit of respect paid off cause while hanging around marina bar waiting for my taxi to pick me up several of the guides recognized me and nodded there thanks and in appreciation provide very useful information. Since Avalon bought out the original Batida owner Avalon must be imposing they’re fishing rights and won’t tolerate DIY fly fisherman. Not uncommon and I’ve had several similar confrontation recently with other guides in other parts of the Caribbean who think that we the DIY are pressuring there fishing grounds causing the resident population of bonefish to be even more spooky and harder to hook. As far as the guides are concerned the bottom line is the amount the client tips $$$ is in total relation to the # of fish caught and released, go figure!
Next time your on a flat and a skiff shows up let them fish threw, watch and learn, show a little respect and more than likely (not all the time) the guide will pole by and have his thanks.
My two bits worth.
Ray

[scuro]

That sounds logical but they had no intention of fishing. It was two Cubans (Italians?) and a boy. No white haired English customer willing to spend $500 plus dollars a day, no pole. They were on an errand of some sort and saw me and made a bee line for me. The tone was not respectful, there was no explanation of what exactly the regulations or fishing rights were...only that these waters were restricted.

Who is to educate the DIYer? Nobody wants to visit a Cuban police station.

Do they really own exclusive rights to the whole island or just the nature reserve along the northern part of the island? If they own rights to the entire island, this is nuts....it's strictly a tourist island fer puck's sake. Thousands and thousands of tourists visit the island each year and there are so many people fishing that island. Most do so along the southern shores. You have the people with their collapsable rods, the surf fishermen, the baitrunner fishermen, the fly fishermen and the spinning fishermen and they are all DIY fishermen. If you phone the marine they tell you that you can only fish with the club or do a charter. If you ask about DIY they say, "I'm afraid this is not possible".

You would think somewhere, some Cuban would actually post some regulation about this...if in fact the Cuban government has signed away the rights to the 27k long island. I've asked at the hotel, our airline tour guide, tourism Cuba, the Marina...the answer varies widely. Funny thing is I came in with a 6 ft rod holder, every tourist goes through the only airport. If there truly is a ban on DIY fishing it wouldn't be two hard to figure out who some of the "law breakers" are. Of the many Cubans working in the airport, you figure one might keep an eye out for that and offer a pamphlet to the "green" fishermen. This was my third trip to the island and the first time I have been harassed. This policy, if it covers the ENTIRE island, would be unique to all of the Cuban tourist islands. I may never return.

[cubafish]

Hi scuro, how you doin'? - nice to see you posting here with your experience, as comments like you have made is a great help to others.

Here are my thoughts/comments on your recent Cayo Largo experience.

I have heard of the problem you had at Cayo Largo before - but just in the past year or so. My answer if I had been standing in your shoes, if that boat had approached me in that location would have been: "I am paying (or my wife and I are paying) your government a lot of money to visit this island, and if I want to fish here I am going to fish here." and I would not worry about a Cuban jail as that will never happen without your committing a felonious(sp?) offense.

It is my understanding after talking a year or so ago with both visiting anglers and Cuban anglers who went to CL, that yes, they do have exclusive rights to the whole island. See my proposed/proported reply above.

As you can understand, anglers comprise a very small number of tourists visiting Cuba each year, and most Cubans do not understand recreational fishing, so the posting of rules/regulations, etc. regarding fishing is unknown/unheard of in Cuba - at least for now. And for coming thru the airport with a rod case - most of the anglers who do so when visiting CL are destined for a guideboat, so a warning about where you can and cannot DIY fish is not perceived as being needed.

As for Pepe' and the Avalon Group taking over the fishing operation on CL, if that is true, well, that group pays Cuban government officials a lot of money under the table for the fishing rights/privileges they have, so if in fact they are now running the fishing operation on and around CL, you can bet your arse they will impose and enforce any fishing regulation they want.

[scuro]

Doing well Cubafish...

According to the tour rep who flew down with us, the harassment went a little further with a couple who came down frequently to the island to fish. They were quite upset by it all and vowed never to return. Apparently they had to talk to some sort of official and were warned. There is not a chance that I want to experience that. What I did was to avoid that flat and hide anytime I heard a boat motor. I don't want to vacation like that. Right now my next trip will not be to CL and it won't be to Cuba either. I'm pissed with the stupidity of it all. No one has answers.

What I did when they approached me was simply to listen to what they had to say and I answered their questions truthfully. It was two Cuban's (employees) with a young boy which I assume was one of their sons. They drove about a km out of their way to talk to me and made a beeline straight for me. First off they told me that the flat that I was fishing was a restricted area. They offered no more information and they were not there to educate. I got the impression that they were indicating a specific area and not the whole island. I had found a flat that was also a transit route for the bones on the tides...so the next question was had I caught any fish. They wanted to know how I got there because most anglers wouldn't make the journey that I did to get on it and you couldn't simply follow the shoreline to get on it. They wanted to know if locals had loaned me a Kayak. I didn't move from that location for about 1/2 an hour after they left and then left about 1/2 an hour earlier then I normally would have on that tide. This really bummed me out that day since I had fished that same location on the last two trips and you would almost always see at least one or two bones there on any incoming tide. It took me two days of searching to find another good flat.

Avalon is taking over in April and if this is any indication of what is to come I want no part of that island. Funny thing is that they are shooting themselves in the foot. Their clients mostly seem to be British anglers, I see them in the resort after their day is done. They would need major cake to fish that island for a week....somewhere in the neighbourhood of 5-10 $k per person. Perhaps they have a never ending supply of British anglers who want to dish out that kind of money. Me personally, I learned how to bonefish on Cayo Largo. I spent 5 hours a day on the last three trips learning about everything to be successful and let me tell you that it's a steep learning curve. The thing is I took my family so at the end of the day even if I was unsuccessful, it still was a great day for my family. Initially, I would have never come to the island and fished with the club because I would never pay that type of money as a novice to learn how to fish bones. Now through the internet I have met a number of people who fish the island and the next logical step would have been to go down at the same time as someone else and share the cost of a boat to fish some of those flats that I have looked at longingly. As I get older I also am more financially secure. Perhaps if the fishing was great I would have splurged for a week at a later time when I turn 50 for instance. Who knows from there. The island has so many natural barriers to fishing any of the good flats. What the DIYers are left with are slim pickings. The flats you can get to are the crappier flats and make up 1/50th or less of the flats available to the fishing club. http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinkuiro/2256534142/ I've seen them go all the way around the island so they have a wealth of flats available to them. They are being swine about this, wanting everything for themselves and it could bite them in the butt.

Me personally, I not at all convinced that they own rights to the entire island. As I understand it they own rights to the nature preserve which is to the north and east which makes up a good part of the island. If they do own rights to the whole island I won't return until I have explored other options first and found them all wanting. If they don't have exclusive rights to the whole island I'm not going to do them ANY favours. I would really love to see some sort of documented proof that they own exclusive rights to the entire island. The Cubans really pass the buck on this one and no one is leading me to any sort of documentation or someone who can give me the straight goods.

I also think the uncertainty here will hurt tourism. Tourists don't like uncertainty. Rest assured that I will put my two cents into any discussion on this topic on a number of forums. I'm not going to paint a pretty picture as long as nobody wants to clarify the situation. There are more tourists then you think who at least bring down some fishing gear. I didn't spend much time surveying the resort or talking to fellow tourists but I saw guy surf fishing and another one with a collapsable rod. The guy with the collapsable rod came with two sets of friends. I came with my family of five. Of the known fishermen that week, that makes 2% of the resort rooms and these people were influenced to come to Cayo Largo by the opportunity to fish. What would it take for a cuban to kindly talk to all those with a rod holder, at the airport, and ask where they plan to fish? For those who state they plan to DIY, they could kindly give them a pamphlet that spelt it all out. I could certainly could live with that.

[scuro]

Here is how they should communicate to DIY fishermen, assuming that they have rights to the whole island.

Hi, your probably are not aware that the fishing club owns rights to the entire island. Even though the vast majority of the bone fish are to the north, north-east, and north-west of this location, we have found that they can migrate and we want to protect this species as much as we can. The Cuban government does a very poor job of educating tourists, here is a pamphlet which explains everything. We are sorry that you went to such great expense coming here to fish, but please be our guests on this flat for the rest of the day and I hope you will consider fishing with us in the future. Please come to our operation in the city and our staff will show you what our operation is all about. There you can have a cuban cigar on us and we can answer all of your questions over a cerveza as you look at pictures of what we can offer you. Here is a map of locations that you can fish which we have rights too but allow tourists to fish. We will never enforce our rights along the whole southern shore. The species we are most interested in rarely visit these areas. The rock outcrop at Punta Mal Tiempo or another outcrop 15 minutes east of the Barcello make for good fishing on the tide. Also consider fishing these island lakes and lagoons, and these deep channels here and here close to town. These are also areas we never fish and allow tourists to fish. If you are looking for a good DIY bonefishing destination in Cuba may I suggest one the islands to the north such as Cayo Coco or Cayo Guillermo. Here is further contact information on these destinations. Shrimp patterns in pink work good on this flat, enjoy your day!

That would take all of 5 minutes, potentially increase business, lead to greater compliancy, and leave the tourist DIYer in much happier state of mind. A pipe dream I know....

[Fantasia]

Ahhh, but "es Cuba, no"?

Nothing much ever is as it should be, or as you think it should be. :brood: In any event, it's their country afterall!

Get over it or just don't go back if you don't like their "rules." You ain't gonna change anything.

[Wozzer]

Hi Scuro,

This is disappointing to hear.

I've been to Cuba twice, once to Cayo Coco and once to Guillermo.

I was really interested in going to Largo for a change and I hear the fishing is the best and I've never fished the flats from a boat which I wanted to try.
I thought it would give me a better shot at Tarpon.

I usually like a few days guided and the DIY whether Fly, Spin or bait.

I've bonefished the Cayo Romano flats on both visits but never know of skiffs being available.

The cost of the guides and the hassle if DIY fishing has put me off.

Looks like Coco or Guillermo again!!

[Max S]

Scuro

After a few years fish/vacation at Guillermo, we were considering CL next year for a change of pace and new DIY opportunities. Thanks for the extensive report and heads up.

[scuro]

http://www.avalons.net/pdf/html/cayolargo.html

Doing the calculations....they charge $500 per day for the guided boat and expect a decent tip on top of that also. In talking to people it is next to impossible to get a guide and boat for a few days by showing up at the door. As I understand it almost all of their business is done through week long packages as seen in the link above. Even a single day other then Friday is very difficult to get. Low season may be easier. I heard that Fridays are more possible because their packages run 6 days. You can go deep sea fishing on one charter boat on the island and beyond that, and Avalon, forget about any chance of getting a boat to go fishing. There are no locals on this island.

[scuro]

An e-mail reply from the go cuba tourism personal. It states squat as does the link. I did e-mail back twice but have not received a reply. If anyone knows where I can find information, or someone who could answer the question, "have the rights to all fishing in all of Cayo largo been given exclusively to private companie(s)?"...I'd be grateful. I did research this website and I saw somewhere that states anyone can generally fish from shore.


The is deep-sea fishing in Cayo Largo about the areas there are certain
areas you have for fishing, please see attached information about Cayo
Largo any other specific questions you will need to check with the
tour desk at the hotel

Karen Puebla
Cuba Tourist Board / Mintur Toronto
Executive Assistant / Asistente Ejecutiva
1200 Bay Street, Suite 305
Toronto, ON M5R 2A5
Tel: 416 362 0700
Fax: 416 362 6799
Fkaren@gocuba.ca / info@gocuba.ca



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris [mailto:chrisruland@yahoo.ca]
Sent: March-16-08 12:26 PM
To: info@gocuba.ca
Subject: Cayo Largo and fishing regulations -answer needed urgently

Hello,

I'm hoping that you can find a very specific answer
out for me. Feel free to forward this message on to
someone who might have the answer I am looking for but
please monitor that I receive answers to my questions.

I belong to an Ontario fishing association and
frequent and contribute to a number of international
fishing message boards such as this one.
http://reel-time.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

The answer that you could provide would interest many
other fisherman who visit Cayo Largo, Cuba...or may
plan to in the future. I'll be writing a fishing
report soon for several message boards, with or
without the information, and would like to clarify the
fishing regulations for Cayo Largo. I do not wish to
misinform the thousands of anglers who will be reading
my report so hopefully you or someone else can respond
soon with an answer.

Specifically, I waded out to a flat near Playa Serina.
I was met by a boat from Casa Batida Fishing Club who
told me that the area was restricted to fishing. As I
understand it no license is needed to fish Cuba. I
also understand that all or part of the island is a
natural reserve. I had thought that the nature
preserve and the fishing rights were along the
northern shore of this island and being told that I
was breaking the law was upsetting to me. What is the
area to which exclusive fishing rights have been
given? Is it to the whole island? Are foreign anglers
allowed to fish any part of Cayo Largo? Clarity would
be appreciated since many anglers fish the island
currently by themselves without a license and I doubt
they know they are or will be breaking the law.

Here is an example of an internet website clearly
states the claim. I could not find any information
which specifically claims the area they own rights to.
http://www.anglingdirectholidays.com/pages/cayo_largo_cuba_fishing_holidays.html
With our Cuba partners we now have access to the
exclusive fishing rights on the designated Cayo Largo
Natural Reserve, which encompasses some 140 square
miles of saltwater flats and channels.

Thanks ahead of time,

Chris

[GiantKiller]

On Cayo St. Maria DYI fishing is also forbidden.

[scuro]

On Cayo St. Maria DYI fishing is also forbidden.

The question I have for you is by whom and can you document it or provide a link to this total restriction?

[GiantKiller]

The company in Las Brujas Marina has exclusive right for 80 km.
There is a fishing police working 7 days a week and they chase everyone away during daytime.

[scuro]

I've been there on three separate trips, I talk to a number of DIY fishermen who also fish the island, and no one, but NO ONE, has ever mentioned sighting "fishing police". I saw personal from the fishing club once in that time and no fishing police. The fishing club made no mention of exclusive rights to the whole island. They were a lot more interested in learning how I got to the flat and if any locals helped me get there.

Where is documentation? If the right is exclusive for 80 k's and covers the ENTIRE island, why not share this with the public to protect this exclusive right? Do they believe that all DIY fishermen are lawbreakers and can't read? What is a legal right unless you can demonstrate it to the public? The Cuban's certainly give NO information about this.

This all sounds like bluster to me, like the time I went on a fly-in fishing trip and the company told me there was a 4 mile straight line of hazardous rocks that blocked of the entire distance part of the lake. He wanted to make sure we didn't use too much gas. As I said before, I don't believe the company own rights to the entire island. Instead, they don't want a white haired English man who just dumped 5-10 K to get to these waters on a boat, seeing someone fishing for free.

[GiantKiller]

well believe me or not, but fishing police has chased me and other away, and they are controlling each day. if you don't believe call vladimir in the marina and he will tell you.

[cubafish]

It is obvious that the guides on Cayo Coco, and the fishing police on Cayo Santa Maria/Las Brujas are trying to funnel all anglers to the fishing operation at those two locations (ie. the Casa Batida Fishing Club on Cayo Coco, and Samuel and his guides at Cayo Santa Maria/Las Brujas).

They see an angler fishing DIY and say: "we have the fishing franchise here and that person should be paying us to take them fishing."

Interestingly there is a similar scenario taking place in some of the middle islands in the Bahamas (Long Island, to name one) where the local guides have assumed this same position/attitude and have threatened several anglers with arrest for fishing DIY.

[scuro]

Yes....exactly...I believe it is a threat of arrest which is groundless.

As I see it, anyone has a right to fish from shore in Cuba unless it is protected wilderness area and I don't see all of Cayo Largo being a protected wilderness area. So they make threats hoping that the DIY fishermen will fish for $500 dollars a day and it will increase business. What groundless threats ends up doing is really pissing off the DIY fishermen, we are on vacation and some jerk with a false agenda is doing a good job of being highly irritating. These companies forget that their customers mix at the resort with the DIYers at the end of the day, and they also mix on the internet. If someone asks if I know of the CB fishing club, what do you think I will say? DIYers fish alone because that is all they can afford or it is the style they like to fish best. Threats will not change how they fish and I believe will decrease business. Our next trip down south will not even be in Cuba...and for my 50th?...I'm thinking I'd rather fish for monster pike and huge lakers that reside in shallow water in the Northwest territories.

[Chimehuin]

Dear Friends from Cubamania,

I'm finally planning a family trip to CUBA!!!! It will probably be during June and to Cayo Largo. The beach’s look amazing in all the photos I saw from it!
My plan is try to stay in either Barcelo or Sol Cayo Largo.
BUT I found all your posted messages about been able to DIY fishing there. I am a fly fishing guide in Patagonia Argentina, where the waters are all public but the access to some rivers we fish is private and hard to access without trespassing and jumping fence lines or of course paying the ranch and stay in their lodges.

But never heard about not being able to fish from the beach in a non-reserve area before because someone owns the rights to work that.
If there is public access to the water, you can fish it.

Hopefully I get to walk a little bit playa sirena early in the mornings and don’t get into arguing about this matter.

Could you help me about where else to try to fish for a couple of hours in the mornings?. I was planning to rent a scooter and maybe try to fish that flat (pigs flat) and maybe other places that you guys could recommend.

I’ll appreciate any help you could also provide about what flies to fish. I was planning to carry my 8wt and maybe borrow a 12ve in case I get to see anything bigger (tarpon).

Thank you in advance!

Saludos desde Argentina!
Pablo

[poco_pete]

I have all but given up fishing in Cuba, except when a friend wants to go fishing in a river near his family home. Then it is about drinking and b.s.-ing.

I have intended to fish the river estuaries of Venzuela as I have heard that it is amazing ligh tackle fishing. If you want a beach to ditch your wife, there is always maracaibo. Unfortunately for me, my fishing friends wives have been unditchable to date.

Cubafish, have you fished Venezula ?

[cubafish]

I have intended to fish the river estuaries of Venzuela as I have heard that it is amazing ligh tackle fishing. If you want a beach to ditch your wife, there is always maracaibo. Unfortunately for me, my fishing friends wives have been unditchable to date.

Cubafish, have you fished Venezula ?
Yes, several times, and I have experienced what you have heard about light tackle fishing in the rivers and their estuaries. :smart: I used a 5 and 8wt and also had a 3kg spinner which I used when it was not practical to cast a fly. :thumbsup:

Sorry about the unditchability of the wives, but if you talk to them about the nutbag who is currently running Venezuela, and explain the dangers of traveling outside of police protection where you will be fishing, maybe that will help? :idea3:

[poco_pete]

Cubafish, when was the last time you convinced a woman of something that she did not want to be convinced of ?

I have heard the phrase, "if you are in a hole, stop digging" from too many women

[cubafish]

poco - well you are right of course.

[poco_pete]

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned !


I only looked at the Venezuela option when fishing for Artic char was going to cost $7,000 pp for a week.

[Fantasia]

Women should always obey their husbands wishes. It's in the rules :deal: It's the American way! I always tell Mr Fantasia exactly what he wants to hear :p

[sherry5851]

Women should always obey their husbands wishes. It's in the rules :deal: It's the American way! I always tell Mr Fantasia exactly what he wants to hear :p
Glad it's not the Canadian way!:wink3:

[cubafish]

Women should always obey their husbands wishes. It's in the rules :deal: It's the American way! I always tell Mr Fantasia exactly what he wants to hear :p
Lots of men are full of bull-sheet. So, does that make women full of bull-sugar? :nice: :sunny: